SPEAKER_01 0:00

When a nation's future is shaped, it is often through education, collaboration, and vision. On the show, we don't sell dreams. We upgrade decision making. Indian students and parents invest emotionally and financially in study abroad. So today I want to learn the strategic truth, how a top university thinks about talent, outcomes, and future readiness. Welcome to the Kapal Gupta Report Show, a platform where we don't just talk about careers, we decode global opportunities, informed choices, and a life-defining decision for India's youth. And today's episode is truly special and historic for Indian students aspiring to study abroad. I have the honor of hosting Dr. Eric Lithander, the Deputy Vice-Chancellor Strategy of the University of Auckland, New Zealand's leading global university. Dr. Lithander is visiting India as part of a high-level delegation accompanying the New Zealand Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills. And he also serves as the chair of the New Zealand Advisory Board for the New Zealand Center at IIT Delhi, a flagship collaboration that represents a new era of India-New Zealand academic partnership. So with Indian student enrolments in New Zealand growing at record levels, this conversation is not just timely, it is essential. So today we explore why Indian students are increasingly choosing New Zealand and how the University of Auckland is deepening its footprint in India and what the future of global education collaboration truly looks like. Dr. Lithanda, it's a privilege to welcome you to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Thank you, Kapil. The privilege is entirely mine. Very pleased to be here with you and your followers.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Thank you. Thank you, sir, for giving me this opportunity to share the podcast. In fact, the host of the podcast with you, and I'm sure my audience, all students, will be hugely benefited by what you'll share with us today.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Well, thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

And without further ado, let's get on because I'm sure I know that you are a very busy man. So without wasting any of your time, let me get started. So, Dr. Lithanda, Indian students' enrollments in New Zealand have grown dramatically in the last two years. So, from your strategic vantage point, what do you believe that is driving the strong and sustained interest among Indian students?

SPEAKER_02 3:02

You know, it's it's interesting, isn't it, that this is happening at a time when the total number of Indian students is not necessarily increasing dramatically going overseas, yet the number to New Zealand are increasing. So I think there are probably a couple of things going on. I mean, we all know that the decision to study overseas and the decision to support your son or your daughter to study overseas is a big one. And we live in turbulent times. So I think that New Zealand at the moment is um coming across as being a very safe, uh, very stable, a very friendly and welcoming environment. And I think that that resonates both with applicants and with parents, because you you want to make sure that uh the young person is in an environment where they're going to thrive. And at the moment, New Zealand, I think, comes across as being a place which is particularly welcoming and safe in this environment that we're living in. I think there's no question that some of the other countries that applicants to New Zealand would be considering as well, uh, some of those countries, for one reason or another, have become less attractive. In some cases, it's because of specific policies in relation to capping student numbers. In some cases, it's due to the political environment. Uh, it could be due to the economic environment. So I think when I think about our main competitors in New Zealand, it would be Australia, United States, Canada, UK, all for different reasons, uh might seem a little bit less attractive at the moment. But I'd say the third and most important reason why I think New Zealand is attractive to Indian students right now, it's New Zealand is, um, I think has been has been uh a very steady and a very uh constantly welcoming uh country. We have very um positive policy settings at the moment for both in-study and post-study work rights. Uh the quality of the entire New Zealand higher education sector is high. Uh and I think we have uh over many years demonstrated, I think, a very steady and and predictable in a good way attitude towards international students, which I think now is really starting to be recognized.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Okay, okay. But then uh, sir, you represent the University of Auckland, right? And no wonder it's the ranked one university in New Zealand. So, because as you rightly said, that Indian students, you know, explore many other destinations as well, like US, UK, uh, Canada, Australia. And we all know the, of course, the policies of the president of US, they are kind of you know uh creating uh an atmosphere of uncertainty in the minds of students. So otherwise, we always felt that US was the number one destination for Indian students, right? Aspiring for higher education. Of course, uh New Zealand also has many universities. So, but why particularly University of Auckland? How does it, you know, in terms of uh academic quality, or I would say not only academic quality, but life quality as well, and global recognition, student outcomes, how is it different and how is it special, I would say?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

So I think I would describe it as the best of all worlds. So it is it is the number one ranked university in New Zealand by a significant margin. It's ranked 65 in the QS at the moment, and uh and number one in New Zealand in all the all the main rankings. Uh it's in a very attractive city for Indian students. So Auckland is, by significant margin, the largest and most cosmopolitan city in New Zealand. It's the commercial capital. It has one and a half million people, which for many Indian students will sound perhaps like not being a very large city. So, in that sense, it's a nice balance. It's by New Zealand standards, a very bustling, large, uh, active, exciting city to live in, yet will be very approachable, very accessible, you know, for an Indian student, uh, you know, a very comfortable place to be. It's got a very good quality of life. Uh New Zealanders in general uh take work-life balance very seriously. So I think that Indian students in New Zealand will find uh a very chilled-out um uh attitude, but in a good way, right? So still ambitious, still dynamic, but with a recognition of work-life balance. And that's the same for students as well as for professionals. And also, New Zealand um has a very significant Indian diaspora, and the the largest proportion of that diaspora is in Auckland. In fact, the Indian community has recently overtaken the Chinese community as being the third largest population in New Zealand. So after uh New Zealand Europeans and Maori, which is the indigenous people of New Zealand, the Indian community is now the third largest, which means that there are a range of shops and restaurants uh and other establishments for those medium students who want a taste of home and want to be reminded and have access to things which make them feel comfortable, Auckland is the place to be. So for all those reasons, I think the University of Auckland stands out as being a very good choice.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Wow. Yeah, that really makes sense. But uh, as you just mentioned a little while ago, that it's a safe place to be in. And of course, if I talk about the mindset of Indian parents and the population of India, many a times it's a strength, it's our strength also, but it also poses a disadvantage too. For why I say this, because whatever the government does, still it's not enough because of the huge population India has. And that is one big reason that Indian students uh explore other avenues in other countries. And of course, as you said, New Zealand is one place. And though the employment scenario is improving in our country, still, I would say it's still a challenge because of the high, uh huge population India has. So when Indian parents look for universities abroad, they always think about what happens after graduation or how does so I would love to know that how does the University of Auckland ensure that Indian students graduate not just with a degree, but with real employability, global exposure, and of course, career readiness.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

So how do you think that's so the first thing the first thing I would say is the University of Auckland has uh is number one in New Zealand for graduate outcomes, and that's uh surveyed regularly um in New Zealand. Uh, and we have we're number one, uh we have a 94% uh employment rate for our for our graduates. Um look, I think the important thing to remember is that employability is not something that uh you that you come across the day that you graduate. It's something that you build up over many years. So what we make sure to do at the University of Auckland is uh building your employability and building your uh preparedness for the workforce is something which happens from the day that you walk in, you walk in the door. So we have uh a range of supports and services and opportunities for students to start engaging with their future employment while they're still studying. So, of course, you would expect there to be uh work-integrated learning, you would expect there to be possibilities for internships or work placements during their study. Uh in New Zealand, uh students can study for 25, sorry, can work, uh can work for 25 hours per week during semester time and uh can work full-time outside of semester time. So there's good opportunities to get experience uh during during during their studies. Uh we have a range of services and workshops and and classes to help you with the preparation of your CV, your interview techniques, uh to help you in fact conceptualize what is the right future career for you. And and of course, what we know now is that the students that graduate today, not only are they going to have more than one job during the course of their life, they're likely to have more than one career during the course of their life. So I always encourage students uh to keep in mind that yes, you might be studying a particular discipline with a view to taking a particular type of job. Ten years later, you might retrain or you might take a turn in a different direction. So there's no one outcome from your university studies in in that perspective. And finally, I'd say one of the strongest attributes to help you in your employability is the quality of the of the institution that you've graduated from, and the University of Auckland's strong international profile is certainly going to be a very valuable tick on your CV. And maybe just one more comment, and I think it's an important one, is uh it's been well documented that students who take advantage of overseas study during their study have particularly good career outcomes. So we have a very significant range of student exchange uh opportunities. So you could be doing your degree at the University of Auckland, and you might go to the University of California for a semester, or you might go to a university in London, or you might go to a university elsewhere in the world in Australia or in Asia or anywhere at all. And I would encourage students to think about that because uh it actually reflects really well on them that they have taken that step to broaden their horizons, to learn in a different environment, uh, to live uh in another new culture, probably for them. And it's been well documented in research that students who have spent time abroad like that have particularly good, not only academic outcomes, but career outcomes as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Now that with that, I really agree, and I'm sure the students also are listening to this podcast will also be now encouraged uh to join uh New Zealand, uh in fact the University of Auckland. But you know, what you just said about the programs, so something that comes to my mind is that because the journey, the study abroad journey actually begins with choosing the right program. And I'm sure you'll agree with me on that. So, according to you, uh what is your fit formula for a student? Like, how should they choose a program, like beyond rankings or beyond the trending courses, what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_02 14:58

I think the absolutely most important thing, it has to be something that you have an interest in, it has to be something which you feel a passion for, it has to be something which ignites your your your energy. So if uh if you think that really you should be studying law because it's prestigious and it's going to be well paid, and it's going to be, there might be expectations from your family, or there might be a history of lawyers in your family, but you're actually not that interested in law, then my advice is follow, you know, you have to follow your heart and your brain. You shouldn't only follow one of the two. So, first and foremost, choose a subject which you have an interest in, because you are going to have more energy, more enthusiasm, you're going to get better results, and you're going to ultimately get more out of your study if it's something which you genuinely have a passion for. And of course, be be be confident in the fact that if once you have started your degree, if you discover that for whatever reason it actually is not the right one for you, there are opportunities to change. You know, with within the boundaries of prerequisites that you might need, there are opportunities to change. So you're not going down into a into a one-way alley. Uh so so, of course, consider carefully where your strengths are. You might be more mathematical, you might be more uh of a humanist, or you might be might might be more of a scientist. So, of course, pay attention to that. But ultimately make sure that it's something that you have an interest in. And I it it might sound like a simplistic answer, but it's essential.

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SPEAKER_01 17:24

No, I I do agree, but many a times what happens is because I connect with parents as well as students. And what I've seen,

(Cont.) Why Indian Students Are Choosing New Zealand: A Global Conversation with Dr Erik Lithandar, DVC of the University of Auckland

SPEAKER_01 17:33

parents take a safe approach, whereas the students have a better risk-taking ability because they are more aware of the current trends, the new technology going on, the new courses. So, according to you, and parents do have a say, especially in the Indian scenario, parents have a big say because they are actually financing the student as well. So they have a because Indian social setup is something different. So, according to you, what are the hidden risks of that approach?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Well, rather than rather than look at rather than look at it in terms of risk, uh, let's flip it around and look at it in terms of opportunity. There is, I think the the magic solution here is a conjoint, conjoint degree, which we have many of, which is when you're essentially doing two concurrent degrees, and you can uh you can combine, you certainly in our university, you can combine arts and science. So your heart might be telling you that I would love to study music, or I would love to study uh uh anthropology, or I would love to study languages. But my head, or maybe my parents' head, is telling me that I should be studying engineering or I should be studying business. So you can actually follow your heart and your head in that circumstance. So that's one answer. And if but of course, there won't necessarily be a conjoint degree, which is perfect for your two combinations. Uh, you can also take electives in areas other than your main one. So, yes, maybe the sensible decision is to do a business degree or an accounting degree, whatever it might be. But with your elective courses, you can study something which is a little bit closer to your other areas of interest. Don't forget also that uh if if you're doing an undergraduate degree, there's always the masters that can potentially come next. So you so you're not locked into a single pathway. So you can do a business degree uh for your undergraduate, and then you might choose to do something different for your for your for your master's. And as I said earlier, students today are are going to have multiple careers and multiple opportunities to retrain. So you might start off life as an engineer and you might move on to become an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Very true. Actually agree with this point. And moving forward, IITs are the premier institutes of India, and Indians are proud of them. And of course, the New Zealand Center at IIT Delhi, I would say it's a landmark initiative. So, could you explain how this collaboration benefits Indian students, and especially in areas like joint research, innovation, internships, and global mobility?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Well, let me start by saying how incredibly uh impressive the IITs are, the IET system in India. I mean, genuinely we're leading in what they do. And of course, you see that not only in their research outputs, but also in how fiercely competitive it is to get a place at them. So uh we're very, very fortunate in New Zealand to have a strong collaboration with IIT Delhi, where there is something called the New Zealand Center, which is a consortium of all the eight New Zealand centers, uh, New Zealand universities, the eight New Zealand universities jointly um run and support financially a small center within IIT Delhi, which is designed to bring together researchers uh from both countries. And we have a range of uh um uh funds for seeding research opportunities. We have fellowships where the staff go back and forth, and we have some student mobility opportunities as well. I think probably the most meaningful aspect of the center is actually the symbolism of it, because here you have the eight New Zealand universities, all of them together in partnership, putting their competition and their differences aside, and saying India is such an incredibly important partner for New Zealand on a bilateral basis that together we're going to make sure that we have really close research collaboration and make sure that research discoveries and uh future innovation is able to be done on a partnership basis. Because there are, of course, many, many issues which are affecting both the people and the climate of India and New Zealand. So we try to focus on areas of joint interest and of course joint excellence. And I think it's it's a it's really a very, very important collaboration and one which I think will develop further in the years to come.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

So, as you said, it's like a group of eight universities in New Zealand who are part of this. So is Is it the same in India, also that, or is it only the IIT Delhi students will be benefited from it?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

At the moment, it's focused on IIT Delhi. So the the center was started about five years ago, but of course, as you would expect, had a period during and immediately after the pandemic when activity was a bit more restricted. Our ambition is certainly that there will be uh additional partners on the Indian side in due course. But for the time being, IIT Delhi is the main partner.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

So even the other IIT uh uh institutes across India won't be part of it as of now. Maybe they'll be part uh begin included in future, but not as exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. But still it's a great initiative, and I'm sure the IIT Delhi students will be really proud of this uh opportunity that'll come their way back.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

So I'll tell you just actually um over the last few weeks, we had a group of 20 students from the eight New Zealand universities who were um able to come for six weeks to India on an innovation program where they spent some time at IIT Delhi, but also traveled around the country um meeting with and learning from a range of different institutions that are active in the innovation and entrepreneurship space. And uh I met with them yesterday and saw a presentation of what they've learned and achieved during their time here. And I think what it signaled to me, which all of us already know, is that India is really one of the, if not the world's most dynamic entrepreneurship and innovation ecosystem at the moment. And these students were just blown away by the level of um advancement in those areas. And in fact, they're gonna bring back some very valuable lessons, not only for their own learning and their own development, but which will ultimately impact the rest of New Zealand, I think.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

I would say thank you for saying that. And as an India, I really feel proud when I hear from people like you. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. And as chair of the New Zealand Advisory Board for the Center, how do you see India New Zealand collaboration shaping future-ready fields? Because this is really important for the coming generations, not only for the present generations, for the for the coming generation as well, uh, such as sustainability, AI, and AI summit is still going on in Delhi currently, right? And healthcare and advanced engineering.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

There's no question, in my mind, is going to go from strength to strength. So it's it's a it's a long-standing bilateral respect, mutual respect and friendship between these two nations. Now you might say, can you find two more different nations? India, the most populous uh country in the world, uh, New Zealand uh very, very remote geographically and with a very small population of around five million people. Yet these two nations have shared values, uh, shared aspirations, and I think shared concerns, which they are looking to tackle together. A uh free trade agreement between New Zealand and India has just been negotiated and will hopefully be uh signed in in the coming months. Our prime minister has uh been to India in the last 12 months. And there is such a wealth of collaboration and people-to-people links between our two nations. And I think initiatives such as the New Zealand Center that we just described, uh the fact that uh not only Indian students, but actually many Indians who are seeking to develop their professional careers and to potentially look for spending some time of their life uh in a different country, they're choosing New Zealand. So I think that's a a powerful signal of the fact that the relationship is leading to actual impact in uh in the corporate world, in the official government-to-government world, and ultimately in the individual lives of both students and professionals. And that's exciting to see. And I can only see that growing stronger.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Great. So now coming from the, let's say, the admin part to the students, because ultimately my main audience are the students and parents. And I see through my experience that cost is a major factor while deciding any country. And of course, cost and accessibility, I would say, it matters deeply to Indian families. And a decision to go abroad is not a one-off decision from a student, but it is a family decision here. So, what scholarships or funding pathways or any industry-linked opportunities should Indian students be aware of when considering New Zealand and of course the University of Auckland?

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Yeah, so so we do have a range of scholarships available. We have scholarships which are available to any international students. So, for instance, we have the University of Auckland International Student Excellence Scholarships, which are up to 10,000 New Zealand dollars, and Indian students, of course, are able to apply for those. We have scholarships which are specific to India and which are earmarks to Indian students. So they are the University of Auckland India High Achievers Scholarships, which are up to 20,000 New Zealand dollars. And then there were also some New Zealand-wide scholarships, which students going to any of the New Zealand universities can apply for, which are also available to Indian students, or in fact, specific to Indian students. So there are the New Zealand Excellence Awards of $10,000 each. So they're all different opportunities. Uh, and there are more. I've just mentioned some of the some of the main ones. So that's that's one possibility. And I think also it's worth uh remembering those 25 hours of uh work rights that the students have each week while they're studying. Now, of course, we want to make sure, and I'm sure the parents in particular don't want the students to lose focus from their studies and spend too much time working. But I think that uh I think that it's it's a valuable opportunity. And of course, it's not you don't only have to do it during during semester time, it's also the possibility of full-time work outside of outside of the semesters, which wouldn't have an impact on on your studies. So I think all of those considerations are worth worth considering. And look, it's it's also, of course, all important to look at uh not only at the tuition fee costs and also the cost for living costs. And in I say that in both cases, New Zealand is very competitive compared to some of the other uh countries which these students might also be considering, such as UK, US, uh, Australia.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

No, this is really good because I never knew that New Zealand has Indian student-specific scholarship. So that's great news. And I'm sure students will be really happy and now more encouraged to you know try their luck. But with that, something that comes to my mind is that what scholarship mindset do you recommend? Because it's not just where to apply or which uh basically which scholarship to apply, but how should a student position themselves so that they get uh it's easier or more uh uh let's say guaranteed to get a scholarship. Because obviously, as a consultant, I cannot uh say that you can definitely get a scholarship, but it depends on because there's so many students applying. So there should be a fixed number where uh of students which they'll be uh offered scholarships, not all.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

So how do they go about it? So it's so it's it's important to remember that the different scholarships are different criteria. So so I can't give you an answer which will which will cover uh every aspect of that of that question. Uh broadly speaking, many of the scholarships relate to academic merit. So it has to do with um how strongly you have performed academically uh so far and and how good your grades are when you are applying to study at university. But of course, there are also aspects which relate to your motivation and your ability to express um how much commitment and how much um excitement and how much determination you have to succeed. So all of those factors can come into consideration. There may also be factors which have to do with uh your personal circumstances and your family circumstances. So I think it's it's it's worthwhile studying very carefully the different criteria in the different scholarships and make sure that you are tailoring your application to the scholarship uh very carefully towards those criteria to give yourself the best chance of getting one.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Got it, got it. And one is the the cost factor for the parents in India. Of course, the quality of education is the primary thing to be considered. I would say then comes the cost. And side by side comes the safety of the student, right? Because now many times some students we can see going for the undergrad program, but some families feel, oh no, undergrad child won't be able to take care of himself abroad because he'll be all alone. So masters will be a better proposition. So what do you suggest? Is it which is a better decision so that the journey of the student becomes more uh fruitful?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

So I think that's uh fundamentally a question of how prepared the student feels for the significant commitments to study away from home, right? To far away from home. And of course, universities like ours and all the New Zealand universities have very significant and meaningful supports in place to make sure that young people who are coming into our care and to take their education with us uh are well looked after and given every support. Because of course, they're likely to have a wobble. We all have, we all wobble when we in an unfamiliar environment, and we might feel a little bit unsteady of ourselves and not quite sure what to go on. So, what's going on? So I think a couple of things. One is the accommodation, so the the the the living arrangements. Uh so many universities, and certainly ours, uh, we have a significant number of uh student dormitories which are available to international students, in particular in their first year of undergraduate, because that's the the year in which uh they arguably need the most uh support and the most looking after. We also have catered halls where all of your meals are provided. So if these young people are not familiar with with cooking or with shopping or looking after themselves, then going into a catered hall could be a good way to start that um more independent living. We have a range of services, not only to give academic support to the students to make sure that they are tracking on a good journey. And if they're, as they're starting their education with us, they're finding that they have some areas of weakness, whether it's their study skills or whether it's some element of uh the the core requirements to perform well in the course, they're discovering that maybe they're not quite as strong as they thought they were. Then we have support to lift them up and to get them catching up to where they need to be. We also have services if the student is feeling homesick or if perhaps they're feeling a little bit isolated or they're struggling to integrate into this new environment. We have hundreds of clubs and societies uh on campus, including uh Indian Student Society. So I would strongly encourage students when they're new to a university, is join the clubs, join the societies, because you will meet like-minded people, whether you have a shared interest in a sport or in an activity or in a particular um uh uh group from a particular country like India, then it's a good opportunity to meet people that way. The other element I think is important to mention is uh health and well-being. So the University of Auckland has uh really phenomenal facilities, including a brand new uh health and wellness center, which was just opened in the last year, which is an eight-story building with a swimming pool and uh remarkable gym and sports uh facilities, basketball, squash, tennis, soccer, uh, dance, boxing, uh, you know, all the exercise classes. And it is well known and well documented that students who uh are active physically and are involved in the life of the university, they tend to integrate better and therefore do better academically because their social and their personal life is on more stable footing. And that way they they actually perform better in their studies. So I would I would strongly encourage students to think about performing well in your studies is not only about uh sitting in the library and and working hard. It's also about your social life, your physical and mental well-being, and the way in which you're taking advantage of the services which are being offered to you. And you should, you should take advantage of those services. I think that's the magic potion to doing really well at university.

unknown 37:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

No, that's really great, Eric, because see, the first six months are usually tough because at that is the time when the student is basically adapting to the new environment. And I usually tell the students like whenever you set the first foot on the foreign soil, your life changes, right? It's all together, you know, everything is new. So though it's good that let's say talking about Indian students, that because the Indian population is also there and many Indian students are already studying there, so it'll it is their comfort level to interact with them. But I would say a study abroad for any student is altogether a different experience because they get to know in fact they get the opportunity to know the culture of that country also where they are going to study. So, apart from the university's programs that they get to interact with other Indian students, are there any programs where they get to learn the New Zealand culture as well so that they can actually know the country in a much better way?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Absolutely. And that's something which we we believe very strongly in New Zealand is that it's important to showcase uh the long history, the proud tradition of New Zealand. Uh, we do a uh um a Maori welcome for our international students uh where they get to see some of the uh the cultural expression and and the very strong and proud history of Maori culture, and we do that during the orientation. And during the course of the year, there are many opportunities for the students to join in different visits or different excursions that are organized for them. Another advantage of New Zealand is that it's a relatively compact country, certainly compared to India. So traveling uh to different parts of New Zealand over the weekend or over the study breaks or over the holidays is is really very accessible. And we do find that our international students get tremendous value from being able to explore not only Auckland, which has uh has a great number of opportunities to explore not only the natural beauty of New Zealand, but also the uh the cultural richness of New Zealand, but also the rest of the country, which they can quite easily travel around during their time with us. And we would we would be disappointed if a student left us uh after however many years of study, having not become a little bit of a kiwi themselves.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

That's great. See, in the real sense, a person will only become a global citizen when he actually learns the real aspect of the other culture. Sitting in India, listen, talking about New Zealand or reading about New Zealand or just listening from others is just a hearsay. That's not, I would say, when a person experiences himself, that's altogether a different experience. That's a different learning. And travel is a huge, I would say, teacher, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

But I would also say what I actually often say to my international students is I ask them to please, please make sure that they'll also teach us about them, their culture, their religion, their history, their food, their their traditions, their background. Because don't forget that New Zealand students are also going to be very likely to have international careers, they're very likely to be traveling, uh, to live overseas. Uh and for them to be successful in that, they have to be have been exposed to difference and to different cultures and different languages. So as much as I want our Indian students to learn about New Zealand, I want New Zealand students to learn about all the other cut all the other international students that we have over 8,000 international students at the university. And I think it's uh it's if you like, it's it's a small responsibility of theirs to make sure that they're also helping us to give the best of the world to New Zealand students.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Right. And as you mentioned a little while ago, that uh even the Prime Minister of New Zealand was interacting with Prime Minister Modi. And education was one of the key themes where discussions took place. So, how important is government-level support in strengthening these long-term opportunities for Indian students in New Zealand?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Okay, so education is a it gets uh has been mentioned repeatedly as an important component of the free trade agreement, which has been negotiated. The two prime ministers uh last year signed a new education cooperation agreement. Uh, and the New Zealand government certainly, I think, in particular in contrast to some of some of the other countries where where Indian students might consider studying, the New Zealand government really has been very consistent. And this is governments of different political directions over the years have been consistent in their support for international education for international students, uh and in particular for international students who may wish to make New Zealand their home, whether it's forever or whether it's for a short period of time. And therefore, that's why we have uh very attractive post-study work rights where students can stay for a number of years after graduation. And that depends on the level of study and how long they've spent in New Zealand. But but there is a generous post-study work rights. And in fact, uh various surveys and and public um public opinion polls have shown that the New Zealand public is very positively disposed towards international students and feel that they make a genuine contribution to the life of the nation and to the dynamism and the energy of the nation. So uh I think for all of those reasons, whether it's uh at government level or whether it's at community level, uh, international students and Indian students who come to New Zealand are going to find a very warm welcome. They're going to find a great deal of respect, uh, a great deal of support. Uh, and that's something which we also take very seriously at the university to make sure that that comes across. Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And many study abroad aspirants are really confused, also. And that is very natural, also, because they don't get all the facts ready in their home country. So I would say many students feel overwhelmed by choices, rankings, peer pressure, though you have answered. This beautifully earlier, also today. But still, if you were speaking directly to a 17-year-old student or a 21-year-old Indian student today, what guidance would you give them to make a wise global education decision?

SPEAKER_02 44:56

I would say the most important thing to remember is that in education, there are no wrong answers. There are only varying degrees of opportunity. And there are no wrong decisions. I said earlier, it's important to have an interest and a passion in the degree subject which you choose. But also there are going to be opportunities to try uh to try other elements of it and to try different directions during the course of your life. So uh I would say don't um don't agonize uh as and it's easy for me to say it's and it's difficult to do when you're 17 and you're under pressure to make a decision and to choose not only a university but a country in which to study. And as we said earlier, the very significant commitment from friends and family who might be supporting the student. So for all those reasons, as best you can, try not to agonize uh over the decision, but rather remember there are there are only good decisions in in choosing education as a pathway.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

This is going to be really, really beneficial for Indian students, what you just said, right? And thank you. Thank you for this. And moving further, because I'm taking too much of your time. So looking ahead five to ten years, and as we know, the AI summit is on, so India is all into you know talking about the future technologies and all. So, how do you envision the future of India and New Zealand higher education collaboration? And what role will Indian students play in shaping that future?

SPEAKER_02 47:01

So there's no question in my mind that uh all of the foundations that we have been laying over a number of years in the bilateral relationship, whether that's uh developing people to people to links, whether it's developing trade, whether it's developing government-to-government friendship, I think they are all going to come to fruition uh in the coming years and really uh deliver to us uh an even stronger bilateral partnership, friendship, uh sense of common purpose, sense of the opportunity to solve really meaningful global problems in partnership. So coming back to the New Zealand Center, uh, I think that's it's a it's a small example, but an important one, of where we're saying that holding hands uh across the divide between New Zealand and India, we are working collaborately, collaboratively using our strengths uh as institutions to tackle real issues, whether it's environmental issues, whether it's energy issues, whether it's health issues, using our research and using the remarkable skills of our young people and the energy of our young people to build opportunity for the future. And uh I think we will look back and see not only how uh the Indian diaspora, which is already significant in New Zealand, I think is going to continue to be a real engine for growth. So it's it's a very dynamic diaspora, very um very hardworking, very entrepreneurial, very energetic. And New Zealand, even today and for many years, has been seeing the benefits of that community. And I think those benefits are going to become even more even more obvious. If I have uh a dream which I think still needs some work to be realized, I don't think that enough New Zealand students are taking advantage of opportunities to spend time in India. And certainly what I what I would like to see in my own university, and I'm sure it's the same in other New Zealand universities, is more opportunities for New Zealand students to spend a semester abroad or a summer school or a winter school or an internship in India, because I think they would be blown away by the richness and not only of the culture, the warmth of the people, you know, the beauty of the landscape, but above all the energy and the sense of opportunity and the sense of of um of possibility which you feel when you're you're when you're when you're here, when I'm here and I'm walking around visiting institutions, talking to people, that palpable sense of of opportunity and excitement in the future is something that a country like New Zealand can learn a lot from. Uh, and I think that our our our young people coming together is that's is only going to build upon that.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Thank you. And I've taken a lot of your time, sir. So thank you for sharing not just facts and figures, but a vision of partnership, possibility, and purpose, I would say. So, what stands out from today's conversation is that studying abroad is not about only leaving India, it's about connecting India to the world, I would say. And New Zealand's growing engagement with India, the University of Auckland's leadership in research and employability, as you rightly mentioned, and initiatives like they are taking and the New Zealand Center at IIT Delhi, all clearly signal that the future belongs to students who think globally and I would say act intentionally. So thank you, sir. Thank you for joining me on my podcast today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Thank you, Capriel. It's my pleasure entirely.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

So to every student and parent listening today, don't choose a country just because others are going there. And don't choose a university only because of rankings. Choose clarity, choose alignment, and choose, I would say, global relevance. So take time to research, ask the right questions and reflect on where your education can truly take you to shape your future and not just a degree. If this episode helped you think differently about studying abroad, share it with the student who is confused right now. And don't forget to subscribe to the Kapal Gupta Career Port Show where we bring you conversations that shape careers, not just choices.